New Age Voice, August 1997 An Interview with Vas by Bryan Reesman Vocalist Azam Ali and percussionist Greg Ellis form the nucleus of Vas, whose debut Sunyata (Narada) meshes the entrancing vocals of Ali with the dense percussive tapestries of Ellis. They integrate elements of Eastern, Western, and Middle Eastern musics into their own mystical blend. Ali and Ellis bring different experience to the table: she studied Persian classical music on the santour, then began learning to sing, developing her own personal voice outside of lessons; on the other hand, he studied trumpet throughout childhood and developed a European classical background, but eventually shifted to drums and percussion, which he taught himself to play and explore nontraditional approaches. Their musical collaboration has reaped good rewards. While a tune like "Refuge" - with an intro featuring floating organ tones and haunting vox - certainly conjures up the spirit of Dead Can Dance, Vas have their own distinct sound and personality, dubbing their music "alternative world". Their unique trademarks include Ali's personal language (which she uses in her singing), and her use of the voice as an instrument integrated with the highly melodic drumming of Ellis. NA: How did you bring your musical backgrounds together to form Vas? ELLIS: There are just so many different ways that we approach it. The bottom line is that we both individually knew that we had another way to approach writing and creating music, and other people we had been working with just did not satisfy that. Right before we met, we were both in our worlds, doing our own thing. Then when we came- together, we didn't have to alter or shift much at all . These two styles fit so perfectly together. Azam really wanted to explore creating her own language with her vocals, and never had the opportunity or the foundation with someone else to allow her to go as deep as she needed to. For me it was the same thing. I think that seeing how far she would take that inspired me to go that much deeper. So the styles come out more in the way that the songs write themselves. ALI: Also, the influences that we've had over the years - what we've grown up listening to and the music we both love to listen to definitely come through in the way that we express ourselves. NA V: Azam, how did you come about designing your own language? ALI: I used to write poetry and then put music to that. But sometimes when you're working with set lyrics, if the melody doesn't work with the words you've created, then you have to change the melody. I didn't like that I had to change the music to express the words. And not only that, but two months after writing something like that, I'd be doing a performance and wouldn't feel that way anymore. I would be singing about something that's not projecting where I'm at at that point. It started to feel a little bit redundant and contrived, so I broke away from that. In the beginning, I used to sing more in phonetics, which is what Lisa Gerrard mostly does. I would sing a phrase and repeat it through the song and not have to compromise the melody and just go with the music. But after a point, when Greg and I met, even that wasn't enough. Greg was the one who really pushed me. He left me alone one night when we were working on a song, and he said, "I'm going to go for a walk, and then come back, and I think you should work on lyrics." I was so scared, but once I put that pen in my hand, it was so easy and so natural; I couldn't believe I was so afraid to do it. By the time he came back, I had it ready to go. That night was a huge revelation. NAV: When you write songs, do you write them in a traditional fashion or do you build them from improvisations? ALI: We have no idea before we start [where it's going]. What happens is I'll have an idea for a vocal melody, or Greg will have an idea for a rhythm, and it starts from either of those two. We never ever plan - we just do it. We think that the music has its own life, and if we just back off and let it go, without involving either of our egos, the music will just take us. NAV: Greg, your drums have a very melodic presence. ELLIS: Like Azam was saying with her language, I don't want to be limited to a traditional pattem or rhythm that has been around for so long. I really wanted to create my own, because it then allowed her to create her own language as well. ALI: His playing is so musical, and that's something that people don't realize. Rhythm is so much more than something to keep time. I can't tell you how many of my melodies I just get by picking up a couple of notes from his playing. ELLIS: I've devised this percussion kit, so that live, I'm going to be able to basically recreate what's on the record. It's like a drum set rack, but instead of tom arms and cymbal arms, I have rings welded on to the end of the tom arms, with different diameters that hold the udus and the dumbeks. So I can play all these at the same time. On the hi-hat stand, I have tambourines and shakers, and I have a big low drum for a bass drum. So now instead of all four limbs working as one, all four limbs are actually four different players that I delegate jobs to. I think the melodic capabilities of rhythm is something that has been way overlooked in Western pop music. Jazz has been aware of it since the beginning. The rhythmic elements of a John Coltrane solo or a Miles Davis solo are phenomenal when you look at them as just rhythms, not as any melodies or notes. It's something that's going to be the next wave of Western music. It's happening with techno and dub, blending all these different elements into one cohesive thing, which is a very cool thing on that level. They just need to get back to the real players playing. NAV: You're really mixing styles from every other continent ELLIS: We are kind of implying styles but we're not taking them. We're not saying "let's do an Indian groove", it just seems to happen. The song "At Shiva's Feet" we wrote driving up North [from Los Angeles], and I was playing the rhythm on a steering wheel and she came up with a melody on it. The melody did sound Indian, so later I put some Indian percussion under it and it developed an Indian feel. The rhythm was the catalyst for that song, and that first rhythm was played on a steering wheel, so there's not much cultural significance to that. Again, it's just the power of the rhythm, not the tone or the sound of the drums. That comes in much later. ALI: Naturally when you're creating music, your influences are going to come through. You can never get away from that, especially music from your young years, when you're so open and just soaking things in. We don't plan it. We don't plan to write a song that's flavored by Indian music, it just naturally happens.